The ghost of 1980
The images of what happened yesterday, in G Street, with Reinaldo and other friends are, to me, too reminiscent of repudiation rallies of 1980. Look for yourself and tell me if it doesn’t seem the same:
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Generation Y is a Blog inspired by people like me, with names that start with or contain a "Y". Born in Cuba in the '70s and '80s, marked by schools in the countryside, Russian cartoons, illegal emigration and frustration. So I invite, especially, Yanisleidi, Yoandri, YusimÃ, Yuniesky and others who carry their "Y's" to read me and to write to me. Agregar comentario.206 comentarios a The ghost of 1980Páginas: [3] 2 1 » Todos los comentarios Páginas: [3] 2 1 » Todos los comentarios |
Graduate in Philology. Lives in Havana and combines her passion for information science with her work on the Portal Desde Cuba.
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Diciembre 2nd, 2009 at 19:54
Soy hija de padres Cubanos pero Americana de corazon…que verguensa me da ver este video…que verguensa…
Noviembre 30th, 2009 at 19:31
Es increible que ese gobierno siga movilizando a los estudiantes que se ven claros con sus uniformes azules y a la policia castrista pero no se a quien quiren enganar despues de 50 anos por eso mi entero apoyo a todos los blogeros que hacen lo que mucho no tuvinos el valor cuando estabamos alla.
Noviembre 27th, 2009 at 23:28
i was very young and still remember “pim pom fuera abajo la gusanera.. and i sow 2 elders gray hairs both around 60or 70 scary and the mob hitting them punch them …hooror in cuba in 1980… how come the goverment has gone that far? its all wrong in cuba goverment jezz and sad..really sad.. we need to change that for good!.. for freedom for all the next generations of cubans they need to be free!.
Noviembre 27th, 2009 at 06:53
#201
Liam:
you present some very good arguments; your perception of the realities in Cuba seem to be correct however: perhaps you would consider the temporary use of a different set of “glasses” to see if things are different?
How about considering how we perceive the freedoms we enjoy compared to the freedoms someonelse enjoys?
Even at the best level of confidence in a relationshinp (of the kind we are talking about) a barrier exists if anything else for self preservation.
I doubt you are aware of it other than intellectualy (not intended to offend you).
Addresing the issues of availabity of confort items, pricey or not from “our” advantage point of view is taken for granted, basic necesities like toiletries, running water & a sewer system, transportation etc.
Being told that what you don’t have is either the fault of the embargo or worst that you have not earned because you are not for the revolution IS a limitation of your freedom supported by a form of torture by indoctrination.
Freedom of truth?
We don’t go thru that do we?
About the availability of free movement … intellectualy one can thing that by regulationg how, when & where people moves is justified by the capabilities of the different regions of Cuba; considerations about what kind of stresses do this movements put into the different geographical locations? it sounds great doesn’t it?
Nevertheless: you & I can move about … we can come & go as our occupation dictates … being told where to go but not forced, since the ultimate decision is ours … or we change jobs knowing we’ll get another job right?
Not being able to exercise the freedom of movement IS a limitation of freedom.
About religion, the freedom to choose what to belive is an internal one, I can say: I to I”m a catholic inside me but, outwardl: I can say I am not so as to be “safe”.
You on the other hand by asking me would never know either way.
That would in appearance cancel the issue … but please remember the idea of not been able to to be & feel free to express one self IS a limitation of freedom beyond the lines of a social contract in a free world.
And these are just a very few of the picture parts, I am suggesting that perhaps there is another point of view, not just as an opinion, but as a way of life for the past 50 years.
Liam: with the most respect to your opinion I only ask you to consider the posibility of a very difficult life, a life where the elders were subjected to one form of coercion, the following genereation was brainwashed & the following generation is perhaps blisfully ignorant.
The natural progression is that the human being knows he/she must be free even if the know is nt there, it is instinctive …
The self preservation syndrome does colour things differently in the outward …
I am talking from a perhaps an advantage point … in my past there has been loss, of family, friends & country, I had at times made very tough & painfull choices, I came close to loosing my identity … I went thru the tunnel … & came back to the light by the grace of God & the love of my fellow man …
If nothing I have learned that freedom is not free, is not cheap and without dialoge … we may loose it … in a wink.
Again thank you Liam for some very good comments.
No matter, I thank you for your opennes of mind & most importantly for your opinions
Noviembre 27th, 2009 at 04:53
Liam I just saw your post by chance. You should have posted on the new post from Yoani.
If you have read my prior statements I also agree that the embargo is not fair and should be eliminated and I am also against the travel ban. So it seems we are in agreement. My point of view with regards to embargo have even nothing to do wit China and Vietnam and I agree you do have also a valid point there.
My view have to do with that by having the embargo the US is forcing the vote of the Cuban people since it is obvious they do not like the Cuban people to vote for the revolution. I do not think any foreign government should have the right to influence the vote of people in some other country. I base my statements in the Helms Burton law that specifically spells out names.
I believe is against our principles to say people should not vote for so and so.
Freedom with regards to voting to me means people should be free to vote for whomever they want. I think that law is against our principles.
Noviembre 27th, 2009 at 03:54
Ok Moskra, if i accept that ‘Cuba is a prison’then so is China and Vietnam. One party communist governments. The USA embargoes/blockades Cuba but trades freely and openly with China and Vietnam. Also, Obama has just returned from China which by all international accounts has a far worse human rights record. Where is the logic? Why is Cuba treated so differently by the USA? Why does every country in the world (except for the USA,Israel and the Palau islands)vote in the United Nations for the USA embargo/blockade of Cuba to be lifted?
Thanks Patricio but i am a ‘catholic’so if that is my ‘ideology’ then fine. Like the pope and the catholic church, i believe that the embargo/blockade should be lifted immediately because it is immoral AND Cuba should open up and change BUT not along the neo-con proposals that were published by Bush.
Julio, i always respect your comments because you engage in debate and not abuse or bad language. You probably know my views on the embargo/blockade now but what do you think about the contradiction regarding the USAs approach to China and Cuba?
I do not think that i have written things all in ‘black and white’and i have said that Yoani is ’spot on’sometimes but i still feel she writes very negatively and cuban friends who i live and work with feel the same when i show them what she has written.
At the moment i am in Europe for christmas to see family but return to my home in La Habana in january. I am not giving you the view of a ‘tourist’,'armchair revolutionary’ or ‘provocateur’,just a different perspective from a european who lives and works most of the year in La Habana.Yes,i do have an ID carnet and work permit.
The last observation i would make is that there are real difficulties with food selection but the supermarkets that exist where you can only buy things with convertible currency,are not full of diplomats,tourists etc,they are full of cubans spending large amounts of money and they are not government functionaries. Also on the beaches of Santa Maria near La Habana,90% of people paying hard currency for sun beds,food drink etc are cubans. Maybe they work in tourism,for foreign enterprises etc but there are many of them and they have a lot of money. This was not the case 5 years ago. It is not all ‘black and white’. There is a growing gap between the richest and poorest cubans.
It is interesting in europe (i cannot speak for the USA)that many cubans are returning from Spain and Italy because they cannot get work in the recession and they are disillusioned with life there. When i question them most reply that they “miss my country,i am cuban”.
Finally,to be absolutely clear, no i do not condone what happened to Yoani and her husband.
Noviembre 27th, 2009 at 01:39
People in Cuba live in Fear. Like the Cuban Hip Hoppers group called Los Aldeanos sing, CUBA IS A PRISON. The people of Cuba need more civil rights. Its high time for change.
Noviembre 27th, 2009 at 01:00
Wow. Scary. Mob. What can you say? Too bad you can’t just do what we do and give someone the middle finger and simply walk away scott free. Liam, you are an idiot if you can find any shred of defending this crap. I have lived in Jamaica, Latin America, northeast Asia, Singapore and Central Europe, so I’ve been around a bit. You are a slave to ideology.
Noviembre 26th, 2009 at 13:38
Liam
I am sorry you take Yoani that way
I do not think Yoani is negative about Cuba as you mentioned in
“so relentlessly negative aboput all things in Cuba”
She is critical of the Cuban regime just like we are critical of any government that does not do what we will like here in the US. If you are American you should know we can be even more critical than Yoani in this country.
As for “They are proud of their country” it seems to me that you are implying that Yoani is not. As always there is this interchange between Country and Cuban Regime.
Allow me please to remind you that Cuba is not Fidel Castro
Cuba is not the revolution
Cuba is not the totalitarian regime that oppresses people freedom and beat helpless women for the simple fact of been critical of the government. So I am not sure if you have seem the beating they orchestrated and organized by the regime against Reinaldo but tell me does that looks to you like people are allow to voice their opinions?
Interesting you point things are not black and white all the time but the regime has always claim either you are with me or against me.
They portrait everything black and white.
For example Yoani is in favor of lifting the ban for Americans to travel to Cuba
Should I remind you the Cuban government has denied her that right!
Yoani also has pronounce herself in favor of eliminating the embargo
so as you see you are guilty of portraying things in Black and White too.
Noviembre 26th, 2009 at 10:02
Thanks for those polite comments on my original message.
I just think that it is not all “black and white”. There are many grey areas. I have many many friends and colleagues in La Habana and whilst there are a substantial minority who think like Yoani there are many others who do not. They are proud of their country,proud of their education and enjoy their family life. They look after their neighbours,most try to work hard and be good citizens. Yes they would like to travel but the majority (like in europe)cannot afford to even if they could.Most do not want to live in another country. Several of my friends had no difficulty with getting paperwork to travel from the cuban authorites but most could not then get visas from european countries. This is the same experience for africans trying to come to europe.
I have lived and worked in many countries in the caribbean and latin america and Cuba is still one of the safest countries in the hemisphere.The young and old people i know in my neighbourhood and my workplace in La Habana openly voice their opinions about what is going on in the country,whether it be baseball,the libreta debate, old members of the government,policies, people who dont work,the blockade,travel,novellas,’yumas’(americans) etc. They do so in work, in bars,in the street,loudly and in front of police and functionaries.Try stopping a cuban giving their view!Yoani is spot on sometimes (not always) but many cubans disagree with many things she says. There are many bloggers in Cuba but not so many who are so relentlessly negative aboput all things in Cuba and the government and few that get the coverage in the USA nd Europe that she does. Opinion in Cuba is far more nuanced.
On the USA,i will say this,i have no axe to grind against americans. However,what is the logic of the USA government trading with Vietnam or China without embargoes/blockades and not trading with Cuba. China is the majority holder of USA treasury bonds and has a one party government and the USA treats it in a totally different way to Cuba.Lets end the double speak on this issue. (Ps; can someone tell me why ‘fathers day’is such a big thing in Cuba when so many cuban men abandon their children and give no money to support them? I would rename it ‘hypocrites day’! )
Try reading Yoanis blog and counterpoint it with the ‘Machetera’ blog. Both come from very different perspectives and neither is right all the time. It is not a ‘black and white’ issue.
Noviembre 25th, 2009 at 21:09
What Cowards are these little Napoleons, they came in killing people who supposedly did the same thing during the Batista Regime, But Batista was a sucking baby next to these henchmen, “Esbirros of Fidel Remember you too will received what you sow.
Golpe por golpe, bala por bala, Cobardes !
Noviembre 25th, 2009 at 19:33
Albert:
Thanks for your comment # 190, but, in one way or another I just did the same thing that almost every Cuban did during the last 50 years and over all, after “testing the freedom”!!!!
Before I left Cuba I did not know anything about been free,,,then, right now, after been free for so long, I think that if I loose that right away I will fight back with all my power to avoid it and regain it without any doubts!!!
Nobody knows what he got until you loose it,,,!!!!!
Thanks to Julio also, I think that at the end, we both are talking the same thing,,,and we both want to reach the same goals,,,,which means “Erase from Cuba that diabolical system to allow the Cuban people be free”!!!
Thanks again!!!
Candido
Noviembre 25th, 2009 at 14:59
Let’s not try to impose restriction among ourselves, one of the reasons I decided to leave Cuba was to be able to express myself freely without fears of retribution. Therefore, now that I live in a free country, I can not accept when someone in this forum is trying to impose restrictions as to whether I should be able to vote or not.
Countries that governed by laws are clear as to who should exercise their right to vote; therefore if you are a Cuban citizen, it does not matter where you live at the time of elections. It is your nationality who defines that, if you are Cuban you have the right to vote it does not matter if you been away for a long or short period of time.
Noviembre 25th, 2009 at 14:15
Julio:
I know what you mean, but, the reality is that, we, all the Cubans know how is that regime, how worked, works and will work, then,,,why the system have been 50 years in power?
With regards of your sentence stating: “By the way you are writing is like if you think the regime have that right to punish you”,,,I’m going to tell you, that you are wrong!!!!, because the pleasure that I felt every time that I denounced and still I’m denouncing the human rights violations in Cuba, is so great!!!.
Remember, once again :I know that the classification as “defector” is one more techniques used by Castro, to censor everything there, covering under the so called “Revolutionary Principles, for the poorest and something very patriotic”,,,,but we,,,you , the rest, know that it is just “propaganda”,,,that he (Castro)was able to conduct perfectly and was able to confuse a lot of people!!!,,,but not me,,,and I think that not you also!!!.
I never felt that Castro or nobody else has the right to violate my Humans Rights,,,never ever!!!!,,,that is exactly the reason why I left Cuba,,,because the main Human Right,,,the one that any human being is supposed to get granted after birth , there in Cuba , does not exist,,,and while Castro still stay in power, will the same thing, over ,and over, and over!!!
Candido
Noviembre 25th, 2009 at 13:41
Candido
In Cuba as you know I do not remember anyone asking anyone else to ” signed a contract of allegiance” but people do with their actions.
I am not saying this is your case since I know nothing about you but we know many people who used to be government officials and in their security services who have defected. These people even if they did not sign a paper giving allegiance to the regime where complicit with their actions.
They may have participated on repression and they where part of that system.
Maybe as you say they were force because they did not have any other viable choice.
Everyone knows what happen to people like Yoani or anyone else that dares to oppose.
My principal point that I was trying to make is not about been defector or not
My point is that from the Human Rights perspective it does not matter if you are a defector or not. You are a Human being and you should be able to enter or exit your country as you like.
By the way you are writing is like if you think the regime have that right to punish you.
No Cadido by doing so the regime is violating your Human Rights. by not allowing you to enter Cuba
and that is my whole point.
So what I am saying is that there should be no distinction. You are a Human been that is as entitle to Human Rights as anyone else.
Noviembre 25th, 2009 at 13:28
#189
Candido
I am proud of you and anyone like you.
Today you have the ability to tell your story, talk about it teach!
The future is comming fast the past teaches and hope turned to reality is on the way.
Thank you for sharing you courage & your determination, thank you for making the hard choices, thak you for never loosing hope.
Its ok to retreat … as long as we keep on coming back …
Noviembre 25th, 2009 at 13:13
Albert:
You are right, and that is exactly my point, I don’t care the name used from Castro to classify my choice, which,,,, without any doubts , was the best choice of my life!!!!,,,with that,,, I was born again!!!,,,still I remember the words that the Canadian Immigration Officer did say when he saw my plane taking off,,he said: “From now on,,,you are a free man”!!!!.
At that moment I did not realize it,,,I was still in shock after 4 hours of explanation and questioning from the Canadian authorities!!!,,,thinking about my family,,,,thinking about my wife, mi son, my parents,,,thinking if I would be able to see them again!!!!.
Then, the time passed by,,I was able to bring my wife and son after 14 months of hard struggle denouncing the violation of their Humans Rights,,and just after that,,,when the face of that cruel regime was enough dirty, then the Cuban government allowed the exit of them,,,,anyway, I had to wait 13 years to see my parents again,,,finally, they were with me until their dead,,,but all of us at least for the final years of our lives “We were free”!!!!.
Candido
Noviembre 25th, 2009 at 12:57
#186-#187
Candido & Julio:
What does it matter the name for the choice made?
The sad reality is that right now, defector gusano, traitor & any other name represents the freedom someone exercises by making a single choice.
To retreat does not mean to give up … again & again … we srvide to fight another day and that has to matter for something.
That something is (by uniting) the “voice of Freedom” the thorn in the regime’s side that does not go away, it can by silenced and it marks their doom.
So what’s in a name … I personally don’t care, what is in my heart & mind can’t be conquered, can’t be taken, can be stopped and can’t be killed even if my body is.
Its inside me and they can’t get in; the best they can do is have tell them what they want to hear … any of you remember being in that situation?
Noviembre 25th, 2009 at 12:33
Julio:
We could be 100 years talking about the same thing, in my case I do not consider myself a defector, I never swore allegiance, nor signed a contract, etc, etc, with Fidel, I knew everything because was imposed to me.
Anyway, returning to the word or the definition of deserter (by Castro), I don’t care if Cuban government classifies me as well, on the contrary, if it means for them to “hatred, and that I will always be opposed to that system, then” I am a defector. ”
The important thing is stick to the principles:
How somebody can say today that if he returns to Cuba will be carry out or take him prisoner, and, two years later, while Fidel, Raul and the same band of gangsters are still there, you can ask to the same government, permission to visit your family?.
I do not understand it,,,, and if the family is there, then, do whatever it takes to gain it is FREEDOM!!!!!
Candido
Noviembre 25th, 2009 at 12:09
Dear Candido
I will like to point to your own writing
“I’m not a defector,,,I just took the best decision of my life, because I wanted to be free. but I did receive protection from this Country, covered with my petition and I had granted my Political Asylum I was able to probe the fear, the risk, and the punishment that I will receive if I come back to the island.”
I think you are a defector
Just please read what you just wrote.
Doesn’t that statement that you just wrote seem to be contradictory?
You wanted to be free you came to this country because you wanted to be free
so you came looking for something that you did not have. You came looking for something you could have never gotten in Cuba with the existing regime.
I am sorry but even defectors should have the right to go back we know the Cuban regime does punish these people because to them this are the slaves that scape the master. The cimarrones (scape slaves)
But what we are trying to expose here is not if they should go back or not as individuals. They may have many valid reasons to go back even when their own life could actually be in danger. What is important is that is not the regime’s right to punish these individuals. It is a violation of Human rights.
One more in the long list of violations committed by the regime.
We can not admit that they (the regime) have this right to punish people not even the ones that have defected.
As you probably know from your own experience the regime does not only punishes the defector but also their family in Cuba. They do this by not allowing them to reunite with the family member outside of Cuba and in many other ways.
Noviembre 25th, 2009 at 11:58
To Julio:
The idea go in exile is not new … it is romantiziced thru the history of human kind.
Candido said it well whatever is called it still the same, a means to an end like just about everything we do in life.
Yet it takes a choice … it takes a choice.
An act of freedom pure and simple, a choice.
No one (at least not I) should pretend to walk in another man’s shoes, we don’t know what each other’s cricumstances are.
Castro succedes everytime we we use these names; when we judge each other …
That is the secret of their hold to power.
Noviembre 25th, 2009 at 11:26
Julio:
For sure, you know that any Cuban able to state that if he returns to Cuba after his “defection”, he will be prosecuted and he could go to jail, or executed, etc, etc,,,and that is exactly the main reason to support the Political Asylum status that almost every Cuban has granted after express that situation.
Now,,,,what could be your answer,, if you are a Haitian, or Nicaraguan, or Venezuelan, etc,,,which, more or less are coming out of their countries for the same reasons?
However, those persons, stating the same situation, their petition is been denied most of the time, because, supposedly in their countries there is not a dictatorship,,,,there is a regime like Castro’s regime, then, in our case, to be able to obtain that especial status is something so very well gained under our extreme conditions,,,Am I right?,,,then,,,how could you ask to return -does matter how long after your statement did say that you could go to prison-, knowing that you can loose your freedom, that you can loose everything!!!!!.
In top of that, where are the principles, the moral,,after ask for protection, covered in that special status,,,can you think for one moment, not as a Cuban,,,but as the judge who is listening the petition today, and two years later could see you in the news asking for permission to visit your family, asking for that permission exactly to the same regime from which you decided to escape?,,,can you think just for one moment as a Haitian,,,that after sail using the same type of raft, arrives to USA and is returned!!!!, just because he can’t probe a very well define “fear” if he is returned?.
My point is not the definition of “defector”,,we all know that Castro has been using that word exactly in the same way that he used everything to be so cruel and repressive, for more than 50 years!!!!.
His definition is not the point,,,I know that, for example, in my case, I’m not a defector,,,I just took the best decision of my life, because I wanted to be free!!!!,,,but I did receive protection from this Country, covered with my petition and I had granted my Political Asylum I was able to probe the fear, the risk, and the punishment that I will receive if I come back to the island.
Do not forget that, we, the Cubans are not the only one in similar situation, with more or less differences, more or less common factors, but everybody,,,asking for Political Asylum is aiming to the same target: “FREEDOM”!!!!, then,,,where are the principles?,,where is the moral?,,,,ask your self,,,but be sensitive, and watch the situation from outside,,-if you can!!!-, then, you will see how simple and honorable is keep the straight line!!!!.
The family?,,,is so important,,,then, do whatever it takes to bring them with you,,,they will be free,,,if you go back, it will be a “cosmetic solution”,,,,your family still will be prisoners and you will a permanent slave of that situation.
The history of Cuba contains a lot of Cuban -Marti, Maceo and sadly Castro- exiles that wanted to return despite the government’s denial ( each of them in their era),,,, these Cubans returned to fight, to overthrow the existing government, not to visit, nor diminish the suffering of their families, but that exactly the point!!! that after Castro,,,he was able to control everything and the best way, to be free has been the exile,,,,for all of us!!!!then, once again, if you stated something,,,you must be consistent with it!!!!
Candido
Noviembre 25th, 2009 at 11:22
#180
Julio:
You are right & perhaps but prhaps we don’t have to tell this regime what is right or wrong.
In the delusions of power they “own” the truth & view all other as wrong.
It is that tunnel vision of the world around them what makes them weak.
While they look to repress anytime a weakness is discovered, they continue to overlook that power in its own is permanent but the “holing” to it is transitory at best.
Again, you are so right … the fascination (to me) is to see their convutions & feble struggles to mantain, perhaps waiting for a miracle to happen (not that they belive in such).
Like I said before … where can they go? what can they do?
They are the ones that set up the scenario, theirs is the plan & the choices they made … like it or not they are the ones who will suffer the consecuences, history will not absolve them even if God does upon their repentance.
What are they going to do otherwise: go to the US & become the “other Cubans?
It demands patience, specially when we know the price the ones left behind have to pay.
Noviembre 25th, 2009 at 10:12
Yoani just tweeted that various students of the Blogger Academy have been told by the police to discontinue attending classes.
Noviembre 25th, 2009 at 09:57
“We are not retreating - we are advancing in another Direction.†-Douglas MacArthur
Noviembre 25th, 2009 at 09:54
Dear Candido
I respectfully disagree with your opinion.
I do understand your point of view. You are basically saying that these people are not truly defectors of the system since they are willing to go back to visit their homeland that they defected.
First I will say there is many many reasons why these people may want to return to Cuba. One of them could be because they have a close family dying. For example Celia Cruz who was herself a defector and wanted to visit Cuba when her mother was dying and many other examples.
There is a bigger issue here playing. It is not the right of the Cuban government to denied any one their entry or exit of individuals even those that have defected.
The behavior of the Cuban regime is obviously retribution. An eye for an eye.
So you defected I will not let you come back ever.
Again I am reminded of the ways of the Mafia’s vendetta
I think we have the right to expose the behavior of the Cuban regime
how they control people and how they manipulate the opinion but lets place all the dots in the right place.
Noviembre 25th, 2009 at 09:44
#178
Candido
What a price to pay & yet it is chosen so many times …
I don’t think that a battle lost is also a lost war … just a tactical retreat to lick the wounds, gather the spirit end start again.
Yes, the price is high for all parties involved, the self doublt carried for the rest of our lives is was it worth it?
The suffering left to the family, the punishment …
I think (after a long time) that this sacrifice it insures one more voice to be heard.
Yet … there is (I think) no moral judgement to be made, perhaps a practical one.
The regime knows it … perhaps they wish they could get themselves out of it in nothing else to safe face.
The thing is to keep talking about it. spread the message, Cuba & anywhere else, but for now … just Cuba
Noviembre 25th, 2009 at 09:32
Julio and the rest of the readers:
I don’t want to create a discussion with the opinion which I will mention, but, it is my duty to mention the controversy that exists with those called “deserters”.
From 1959 until today, any person who has escaped from hands of the Government of Cuba, but especially, those who do while on a mission from the government, either as a coach, teacher, cooperating as a worker, student, doctor, etc. , etc., is considered by the Cuban authorities a “deserter”, a “traitor”, and for him, will apply the harshest punishment, which most of the opportunities will be the definitive separation from their families, not letting them leave Cuba, preventing the “deserter” came back to visit, etc, etc,.
We all know that the government of Cuba, with its cruelty and its particular form of repression is clad with any thing capable of doing so to avenge such a challenge,,, that is proven in more than 50 years of dictatorship.
However, the unquestionable, the contradiction, is that those who escape and who are considered defectors by the government of Cuba, know well that they will be exposed to these unjust and cruel measures, but also know they can seek refuge, asylum, protection, etc, in the country who decide to stay, covered in the right of everyone to be free and escape from a murderous regime like Cuba.
In short, any Cuban, who requested political asylum, states clearly that “if he returns to his home, from which he escaped, he would face a big risk go to prison or be executed, punished, etc., etc. ,”,,,, in other words, if he returns “he will be FRIED “!!!!.
So, how can anyone use that opportunity to get covered and protected stating that his return would be something horrible to him and then later, whether you are over 50 years, because the regime is the same, unwilling to return to his country?
We all know how important family is to us, but from the moment we decided that dramatic step, we are aware that the Cuban government, is cruel to them and to us, therefore, with what kind of moral we can ask that we want to return to visit if we said that at least we would go to jail?,,what is most important visiting or freedom?
The only way we have in this case is to fight and do the best possible publishing our case , revealing it at all levels, thus ensuring that our families can come out and join us, but to come back?,,, return?,,, is not a good idea, because in addition to contradict what was said before, put in ridiculous the government that will protect you and those, who come after you with the same situation, are challenged when trying to seek asylum, protection and so on.
That’s my opinion,,, and I support it exactly because I was one of those so called “defectors”,,,,but, never, never I will return to the slave island while Castro and his Mafia gang are in power, now this is my country, gradually I brought here my whole family and now we are happy and free!!!!!!!!!
Freedom is something that is not Negotiable!!!!,,never,,,ever,,,and any so called “defector” returning to Cuba, may lose his liberty for a government whim.
Candido
Noviembre 25th, 2009 at 08:48
The only credit I give to one of them is that they recognize the island will be drain of smart people. Why do you think that is?
Is not because companies outside are luring them no that is not the answer
the reason is because their system is so unpalatable, the reason is because people do ask them to change and they refuse. People, the people do ask them for solutions to the issues but they do like the ostrich put their head on the sand and ignore them or blame someone else.
Until one day.
One day people will realize that they have the power to take this corrupt regime, this upside down power structure out of the way where the totally detached elite at the top does as it pleases with the slaves.
One day soon.
Noviembre 25th, 2009 at 08:36
Andy and Julio,
Yes, the two recently sentenced spies, Walter and Gwendolyn Myers, do seem to fit in the “idealistic” category. They traded their sail boat for prison cells. With respect to the people who live in Cuba, trapped there as prisoners forced to pay an impossible dept, your point is well taken. I don’t know how I would get by either. I am fortunate to not have to live that nightmare. That was a great analysis you did on Julio’s post. I love it when twisted logic is exposed for what it really is. And you’re right, Julio. All Yoani wants to do is leave the country to accept some awards, then come back. How is that an example of brain drain?
Noviembre 25th, 2009 at 08:30
Here is one more example
http://www.cubaencuentro.com/e.....sla-225176
of how the regime uses immigration to create fear.
Someone who defected and will like to go back to visit Cuba and they do not let him go back.
When one reads things like this the first impression one gets is about the Havana regime been a Mafia. I can even hear the godfather’s melody in my head!
You will be punish harshly if you dare to oppose the regime in anyway!
that is the message they give you at every one that dares to oppose the regime.
Noviembre 25th, 2009 at 08:25
Liam:
Like Hank said in #172:
The lack of restrictions to come & go as you please, to reside for eight months in Cuba speaks of of your benefits of certain privileges.
The exercise of using this media (from inside or outside Cuba) means that you are well versed in the use of it with nor restrictions.
As for the “separation” from special interests … perhaps you are not able to do it yourself, hence your “limited appeal”
As much as I respect your opinion, please notice the freedom you are exercising even if that opinion runs contrary to mine.
Like Hank well said (again) what is there that is not true about the Cuban present regime?
What is it that you know? please share your factual knowledge.
Please tell me there is such a thing as the liberty to move from place to place as one pleases; tell me there is a parity in the earnings with the rst of the world.
Don’t blame the embargo … there are other countries not restricted y it.
Please tell me there is sufficient food, tell me that the infraestructure of Cuba is in working condition; tell me that rather than fixing the sewer system it is more important to build a monument.
Tell me tha a vote is as valuable in Cuba (today) as it is in most other countries.
Tell me that the inculcation of the children without taking into consideration their inocence and virgin minds is not manipulation.
Please tell me, I am willing to hear, even to agree to disagree with you.
Noviembre 25th, 2009 at 08:23
For example let us take a look at this
http://www.cubaencuentro.com/e.....nal-225328
Cubans have gotten about 30 thousand signatures asking the Cuban government to use only one currency.
This is why people do migrate and abandon all hope of improvement in Cuba it may seem as an economic desire on part of some immigrants but it is this unwillingness to do the will of the people that sets apart the regime. This easily demonstrates that the regime is not a representation of the people and that only the few the elite at the top get to do what they want. In this case to have two currencies.
Is the system they have created to promote slavery.
In the same way will happen if we give them many signatures asking for the freedom to travel and any of the other human rights.
So you guys can see how each of the rights of individuals are control by that elite at the top. Naturally they do have all the rights they are more equal than anyone.
Did anyone hear permission to travel is been denied to Mariela Castro?
Or Raul Castro or Fidel Castro etc?
Noviembre 25th, 2009 at 07:49
Liam,
If you could be just a little bit more specific, that would be helpful. I sure hope getting kidnapped and beaten by state security agents isn’t part of your everyday existence. Is that an “out of context [snippet] of cuban life that could be written in a similar way about any other country in the world?” I don’t think so. But educate me, I’ll listen. If you really do live in Havana for 8 months out of the year, it sounds to me like you are able to come and go as you please. Would you agree that that basic human right should also apply to the people who live in Havana 12 months out of the year?
Noviembre 25th, 2009 at 07:16
So now that la lechona is being handle by Capiro, I would like to tell you how the Cuban government operates.
Here we are having a great exchange and extraordinary disscusion about a topic that is dear to our hearts, Cuba. Everybody is in the same page more or less a dissgrement here and there for the most part we have a sense of trust for each other.Some people who are in favor of the Regime in Havana and sometimes are at its service are watching our dabate.They don’t like what they are seeing.
First they try to interrupt the discussion by sending commentators like coconut,av2ts,Walter Lippman etc who try to reason with us. They are trying to change our minds first.That did not worked so well.So What they do next?..they try to put the seed of the doubt among us.They throw a rumor out there like for instance I’m trying to identified the commmentators of this section or the Spanisn section.In other words they said that I ‘m some kind of an agent.
They go and throw another question like what do you think about that Julio, Hank Andy?So there you are wondering Is Concubino an agent or not…? Then when they see that that technique is not woeking. They start to descredit people as a human beings.Now they throw comments like concubino is gay or concubino is alcoholic or a pot head…
Little things like that it does not work among us , but it works for the Cubans in the Island. When they indentified somebody that dissent with the Havana Regime that person is attacked first at their personal level, then they put the doubt in the people that this person is related to, then they descredit the character of the person that is being attacked. Finally when nothing works. They throw this person in jail.
The Cuban state security police have done that for the last 50 years.That’s how they keep themselves in power.They terrorize their own people.
Yoani got their game. That is why she is the worst nightmare for the Havana regime in a long time.
Noviembre 25th, 2009 at 06:37
Capiro.
This cochinitas are better deep fried, but is up to you.,So I think you can handle this lechona still in her pigsty (cochiquera) and not in the open a lot better than I do.But keep me posted about the progress tamming this puerca jibara
Noviembre 25th, 2009 at 05:03
Pan Con Lechon
Noviembre 25th, 2009 at 00:27
There you go concubino,match made in heaven……..so gay
I think I like you Pan Con Lechon better. I like GORDITOS!
AND CLOSET CASES! YMMM!
Humberto Capiro
Noviembre 25th, 2009 at 04:20
I am sorry but after many many months of reading your blogs, and spending 8 months a year for the the last 5 years in La Habana, i think you are a media creation paid and supported by the USA. Your perspectives are naive in the extreme. Many out of context snippets of cuban life that could be written in a similar way about any other country in the world.Unless you can put some distance between yourself and the US special interests section you will not widen your appeal beyond the anti-cuban forces who see you as their “media darling”.
Noviembre 25th, 2009 at 00:43
Hank — with regards to the thinking of these apologists for tyranny… well yes, there are some (particularly those non-Cubans abroad… like the two spies recently sentenced)… who are “idealistic”.
Oddly — and a bit hilariously — in my experience, many of these people are the “free spirit” type. You would expect them to be career military or something, right? believe in discipline and one for all and all for one. No… they live in the woods somewhere, a totally free life, no bosses, and they sit there under the trees with the sun filtering down and the birds singing (smoking a little grass, no doubt) and opine how wonderful it is that someone somewhere else is creating “paradise here on earth.” In Cuba they wouldn’t even be in prison… they’re so far off the reservation they’d be in the loony bin.
And then there are the others… the true believers… well ask how many of them defect, show up in Spain, Miami, wherever… and suddenly in one minute we see it was all a great charade. They believe nothing. Never did.
But who am I to judge.
The first group should be put on a plane post haste and transported to “paradise” themselves and see how they like it.
The second group… who am I to judge. I like to think I’d be a “Yoani” or a “Claudia” or a “Reinaldo” or an “Oswaldo Paya”… but perhaps I would just try to get by… fall into the quicksand and try to get by. Who knows. Who can say. If you haven’t lived it.
Noviembre 25th, 2009 at 00:27
There you go concubino,match made in heaven……..so gay
Noviembre 25th, 2009 at 00:20
RESPONSE TO:
Pan Con Lechon
Noviembre 24th, 2009 at 22:22
Concubino is gay….
Thanks Pan Con Lechon, I am looking for a BF! REALLY!
So Concubino, are you single? Do you Singa?
Humberto Capiro
Noviembre 24th, 2009 at 23:40
Hank
you are completly right
it is actually humility that should motivate people to read some opposing view
in case one had err or gone wrong. But as you can see their logic is twested and they try to
justify the slavery system they have an is impossible to justified it.
Noviembre 24th, 2009 at 23:30
Mean to type ilegal form
Noviembre 24th, 2009 at 23:29
So the real reason why some Cubans migrate in an legal form is because
of this restrictins impose by the Cuban regime on normal migration.
Is a prissoner trying to scape the prison!
Noviembre 24th, 2009 at 23:15
We are all so full of ideas that there is hardly enough time to respond to each one of us. This is a great thing! Here’s what I wrote as you all were writing too…
Concubino, you have it under control.
I was thinking today — why it is that I read posts on pro-Castro websites. Why bother? Why spend the time. I have plenty of other more constructive things to do.
Maybe it is because I want to understand the people who write these things and why they believe as they do. If they are paid hacks, fine, that is a simple explanation and we can be done with the inquiry.
But if they actually believe the things they write, that is something entirely different. What is it about the experience of these people that has been so different from mine that allows them to defend the Castro regime as they do? Is ideology something that blinds you to everyday reality? Or is ideology more akin to self justification, self loathing, and preservation? Americans who apologize for Castro especially evoke this sense in me.
When I see the video posted by Yoani, I don’t see ideology, I see ignorance and blind submission. I see the stupidity of a mob. And then I think how unforgivable it is that people who can write actually spend their time defending and rationalizing this.
I was always taught that your best defense in any battle is to know your enemy. That means knowing what your enemy reads, writes and thinks. So maybe that’s why I read these pro-Castro websites.
Noviembre 24th, 2009 at 23:14
Andy as always your thoughts are clear!
Can not belive these people have the nerve to write this answers.
With regard to Yoani even by their own answers they have no excuse since she is only asking for permission to travel and come back not
for permission to migrate!
Noviembre 24th, 2009 at 23:01
It completely boggles the mind… I never get used to the tremendous amount of complete gobbledygook these guys can spew…. what’s the Cuban word? Boberia?
“Such is the case, specifically, in terms of that Article 13 already mentioned, from the broad international recognition that has received the notion that, as a rule, the determination of the requirements to exit or enter any country (yours or another one) is an integral part of the domestic jurisdiction of any state, not international law. …Although in fact there are few countries that have permission to leave the country…”
You got that right. VERY FEW. And they are all totalitarian states.
And then we have more:
“For example, to avoid the phenomenon known as “brain drain†exodus of professionals who have been trained with the resources of these societies and, upon graduation, are attracted to succulent offers from big companies in rich countries. Is it fair that developing countries establish regulations so that such professionals can not travel until they pay the cost invested in their training.”
Which in Cuba, of course… is until the end of their LIVES.
“Overall, very few nations in the world are able to withstand the flight of capital and talents in a disorderly manner towards developed countries. Moreover, almost none has made such costly social programs and comprehensive as Cuba.”
Uh no…. so right here you are just saying it outright… it’s a closed system… our ‘citizens’ are all prisoners. Forced to “benefit” from the “social programs” imposed by the state… and then forced to give their entire lives in service to their jailers.
A perfect analogy is… you put a person in prison. Every day he is there, it costs the state $100 to keep him there. Every day he does work that covers $10 of that cost. So, every day he falls $90 deeper into debt. And… the warden tells him… “you can leave prison as soon as you pay off your debt.”
Noviembre 24th, 2009 at 22:33
It is interesting to notice they did not even try to explain about part 1 of article 13
(1) Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state.
It’s know that the Cuban regime control migration in Cuba limiting this recognized right.
They use the rationing book to do that. If people move lets say from a city like Santiago de Cuba to Havana they will not be able to transfer the rationing book.
Wonder if they thought that by eliminating the rationing book they will be also eliminating the incentive they have to limit migration to Havana city!
Noviembre 24th, 2009 at 22:31
Pan Con Lechon
Julio is talking about serious issues here, but I can invite you to my private chat.You will love it.Miguelina fall for me and so will you. “Te voy asar cochinita”
you know how to find me..
Noviembre 24th, 2009 at 22:22
Concubino is gay….
Noviembre 24th, 2009 at 22:12
HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH REPORT ON CUBA 11/18/09:Cuba: Raúl Castro Imprisons Critics, Crushes Dissent
“Washington, DC) - Raúl Castro’s government has locked up scores of people for exercising their fundamental freedoms and allowed scores more political prisoners arrested during Fidel Castro’s rule to languish in detention, Human Rights Watch says in a report released today. Rather than dismantle Cuba’s repressive machinery, Raúl Castro has kept it firmly in place and fully active, the report says.”
http://www.hrw.org/en/news/200.....es-dissent
Reporters Without Borders: Going online in Cuba - Internet under surveillance
http://www.rsf.org/Going-onlin.....ernet.html
Reporters Without Borders:Authorities block websites, detain 26th journalist
http://www.rsf.org/Authorities.....etain.html
Human Rights Watch: Cuba’s Repressive Machinery:
http://www.hrw.org/en/reports/.....-machinery
Noviembre 24th, 2009 at 22:02
Here is a fragment of the article about human rights in Cuba I was referring before
The translation is done by Google translate but it is still very readable
The question raise is about the right to limit exit and entry to Cuba by Cubans!
The excuses they use are the usual blame the US
As a reminder this people answering the question are deeply in the Cuban regime
Miguel Alfonso
Presidente del Comité Asesor
del Consejo de Derechos Humanos de la ONU.
Jorge Bodes Torres
Asesor. Ministerio de Justicia.
Majela Ferrari Yaunner
Profesora. Universidad de La Habana.
Armando Torres
Diputado a la Asamblea Nacional del Poder Popular. Presidente
del Tribunal Popular Provincial de Ciudad de La Habana.
con
Nelia Aguado is Counsel of the Justice Ministry
Miguel Alfonso is President of the Counsel commite of the Human right commite of United Nations(UN).
Jorge Bodes Torres is Counsel of the Justice Ministry
Majela Ferrari Yaunner is a professor of Havana University
Armando Torres is a representative of the National Assembly of People’s Power and President of the Provincial People’s Power for the city of Havana
Nelia Aguado: What limitations exist today to meet the internationally accepted principle that every individual has the right to leave any country including your own and to return to it?
Miguel Alfonso: First, I have serious reservations about the term “internationally accepted principle,” it is particularly insidious because of the use made of it by the United States and its allies to justify any of their misdeeds, thus invoking an “international community” they alone belong.
On the substance of the question, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (1948), contains this right in Article 13. Now, as you know, the Declaration makes no specific obligations on states, which are generally much more liberal when it comes to approving the wording of a purely declarative, when what is at stake is to accept international obligations in a documentbinding. However, as already mentioned, the Article 29-2 of the Declaration itself states that all rights set forth in this Declaration should be exercised as regulated by law in each country. For others, the Declaration is a document proclaimed in 1948 and some of its provisions are in conflict with international legal norms and practices that have emerged subsequently. Such is the case, specifically, in terms of that Article 13 already mentioned, from the broad international recognition that has received the notion that, as a rule, the determination of the requirements to exit or enter any country (yours or another one) is an integral part of the domestic jurisdiction of any state, not international law. According to the Declaration, there is, therefore, in terms of “right” to freely leave the country and any return (also free) to own, but it is only law ought to, because in reality each governing entry and exit requirements, and decides, for example, if a foreigner has to present a passport or not, or if an accused criminal offense may or may not leave (albeit temporarily) their country of origin before the end of its process. Although in fact there are few countries that have permission to leave the country, my opinion is that this competition has to be exclusive, respectively, of the legal institutions of the state from which you want to leave, and the state to which you want to travel .
This situation of ambivalence, to the rights enshrined in the Universal Declaration does not refer exclusively to the issue of the right to freedom of travel. For example, Article 19 of the Declaration guarantees the right to impart information “regardless of frontiers, by any means of expression.” However, a specialized agency of the United Nations itself, the International Telecommunication Union, established the right of each country to regulate its airwaves, so that should not be possible to transmit from any country to another for certain frequencies withoutprior authorization of the former, since it is an area of sovereign control of states. According to the ITU standards, the radio and television in the United States towards Cuba (ill-named Radio and TV Marti) are totally illegal.
On the other hand, however, not easy to understand the basis on which today continue to demand that those Cubans who have adopted another citizenship continue to have to travel to Cuba with a Cuban passport, despite being citizens of the country today and in the that now reside permanently. Our Constitution does not recognize dual citizenship, as it is the case, for example, the United States.
On the other hand, most of the restrictions that exist for the outputs (temporary or permanent) of Cuban citizens (particularly to the United States) have to do with national security. Most of the regulations that have been present in Cuban legislation in this area are based historically on the proven fact that America has always tried (and, surely, still trying) to use Cuban migration against the Revolution, political that has contributed to the besieged fortress mentality that I mentioned. Now there is what I call legislative inertia, which enables a particular legal rule that has lost all its capacity to protect a particular right, or that it is unnecessary to meet the need which led to their adoption, continue in force and become effective important practical, if nothing is done expressly to leave without legal force or effect.
For others, Cuba has become aware of changes in migration flows to other countries (especially USA) and the requirements have been relaxed in practice limited the ability to travel. There is a difference between the restrictions in force for five, ten or fifteen years, and what is practiced today. Facilities have been expanded to go to another country, and set off without losing their citizenship or the exercise of their rights in Cuba, or to get back, whenever deemed appropriate.Any citizen can be outside, within a limit of eleven months, and return to the country and can back out if you have an entry visa to the country where he currently resides.
Finally, I believe that the number of Cubans who have traveled abroad annually from 1959, for all possible concepts, family visits, international events, sports delegations, political, artistic, cultural in general, scholarships and vacation for the CTC plans, to name just a few reasons to travel in the past, is several times the amount they could afford a trip outside the country before the Revolution, in that free and democratic Cuba as some paint today.
Jorge Bodes: Any society that respects, legally organized, constituted, has the duty and obligation to limit the right of everyone to leave any country, including his own. There is no absolute right that has to be fulfilled at all costs, even the supreme life, as even the law recognizes circumstances in which such rights can not be met by other people or society. This is the case, for example, a citizen wanted by the police due to the alleged commission of an offense that has some characteristics of, under which is not allowed to legally leave the country or who is subject to criminal proceedings that are pending sentencing; or waiting for the fulfillment of a sanction that was imposed. Nor can it afford to leave the country to those who have debts, do not settle, or liabilities to individuals, organizations or companies.
There are other reasons which may restrict in any country the freedom of movement of its citizens. For example, the military or civilians who have access to secret or classified information, the output of which should be contingent upon the authorization granted the organization where they work and can be affected by disclosure of that secret.
In today’s world, the developing countries face other problems that may limit, as established in law or in their immigration rules, free movement of its citizens. For example, to avoid the phenomenon known as “brain drain” exodus of professionals who have been trained with the resources of these societies and, upon graduation, are attracted to succulent offers from big companies in rich countries. Is it fair that developing countries establish regulations so that such professionals can not travel until they pay the cost invested in their training, or preparing others to replace them in office or the activity they perform, or seek some other resarza formula that the investment made. Something similar is happening with athletes, artists and intellectuals, as I consider appropriate to enable countries to establish regulations to mitigate the damage caused by this exodus, even if it temporarily limits the right of free movement of persons.
In Cuba, we can not forget that the U.S. has used immigration as a weapon to attack the revolutionary process. This has led on several occasions, the opening up of borders to emigration to that country, which maintains a so-called Cuban Adjustment Act, designed to encourage the transfer, by any route, its territory, even illegally, the that has led to incidents and even deaths. This policy contrasts with that practiced with the rest of the world, full of limitations and requirements, while the Cubans are encouraged to illegal departure. This situation results in difficulty and hinders the proper exercise of the right to free movement of people worldwide.
A normal relationship between the United States and Cuba would improve the implementation of this law in the country, the issue would be clearer, and perhaps some restrictions or requirements could be eliminated. I believe the right of ownership over certain assets of those who leave the country need not be affected when they choose to do so, by the time it is. There are regulations drawn up at specific times, when enriched by crooks stealing from state coffers were leaving the country, and it was appropriate to have the seizure and confiscation of such property so they were to serve the people. At present, it makes no sense to remain in effect such regulation.
They can justify certain limitations on the right to return to the country temporarily or permanently, to avoid chaotic situations that may be created. However, some practices of immigration policy, relating to authorization of entry to persons who have migrated, are limiting the legitimate right of them to enter the country legally, at least temporarily. This is the case of those who came illegally bound for the United States after the signing of the 1995 migration accords, who are not allowed to visit Cuba. This decision of immigration policy, apparently aimed at showing a position of compliance with these agreements, it limited the right of a higher grade, the power to return. Such a prohibition should be eliminated to improve the exercise of this right by these people.
These limitations need to be reassessed to determine when and where they should be already obsolete. They should have a term not stay indefinitely, as at present with any of them. This was to ensure proper exercise of the right to enter and leave the country, who have almost all citizens of the world except Americans, who were barred from traveling to Cuba, so they lack the right to leave his country freely, without having to apply for authorization is granted only exceptionally.
Majela Ferrari: the practices are limiting this right. The justifications are clearly political. They can be understood more or less, rethought, analyzed on the basis of changes in the realities and contexts. Understanding certain measures rather than others, with regard to the issue depends on the personal information is taken as the basis for ratings.
Armando Torres: The problem of migration to the United States has been politicized over the years of struggle against aggression, the Cuban Adjustment Act and other actions designed to destabilize the revolutionary process. But in my opinion, the fundamental limitations in this area are economic. Overall, very few nations in the world are able to withstand the flight of capital and talents in a disorderly manner towards developed countries. Moreover, almost none has made such costly social programs and comprehensive as Cuba. All this must be considered when analyzing the problem that does not mean, however, that this policy should not be modified in time when conditions permit.
Subjectivizing a right does not require the same as objectifying. In underdeveloped countries, where there are many unemployed, the homeless, the outcasts of all kinds, and where incomes are lower, and very few privileged people can realize the right to travel. Most of the time, traveling abroad spent the money it would take to fight poverty and marginalization of many of his countrymen.
Nevertheless, our State has been looking for ways to make certain Cubans who have a chance, affecting as little as possible to others, and for the invitation and visa permit, may exercise this right.
There is nothing obscure about article 13 of the human rights declaration of which Cuba is a signatory.
Article 13 says
(1) Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state.
(2) Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.
There is no qualifications of any kind that said you should be able to exclude doctors or to limit the rights of individuals to travel base on political opinions like in the case of Yoani Sanchez etc.
It is incredible to read how they defend the Cuban position.
Noviembre 24th, 2009 at 21:43
Thanks Hank, but#151 is my kind of guy..It is fun..So, it seems that #151 is one of The Ghost of 1980.What’s up with that?
Noviembre 24th, 2009 at 21:28
#151
Yeah… that was me I was asking for State ID or a Drivers License so I can buy them a buy them a beer and a Cuban Cigar. Could you please show me your ID?
Noviembre 24th, 2009 at 21:11
You all have posted a lot of good reading material. I need some time to get caught up. Good thing the holidays are upon us! As Concubino said last night, “You guys rock!” And who is the Concubino detractor, what was that about? What a lame attack. We stand by you Concubino!
Noviembre 24th, 2009 at 21:10
Concubino:
Aren’t you the guy that was annoying everyone in the Spanish section of this blog, asking for their identification? Who appointed a small time, egotistical dude like you arbiter of this list?
Noviembre 24th, 2009 at 21:07
#141, #142
I have a great history to pass on.It is already in pdf.Try to translate it in to English but having a tough time doing so.You know how it goes when you are high.Anyways it is great history you should read it.BTW pot is kind of legal in California.You should read The Awesome Column of Joel Stein in Time magazine.Before I forget this my email.
concubino1@gmail.com
Noviembre 24th, 2009 at 20:24
This one is also good reading about the theatrical performance in the corner of 23th and G
http://www.cubaencuentro.com/e.....dio-225082
Noviembre 24th, 2009 at 17:15
Here is my quick impression of “Temas”(Themes)
I should make emphasis that it is only a quick impression.
The magazine is Thematic so it tries to cover a particular topic with different authors point of view.
Curiously the last number happens to be about Human Rights.
I was eager to read what Cubans have to say about this matter but was a little disapointed since 7 of the 11 articles published there seem to be pen by foreign authors.
Even more disappointing is the fact that the only article that tries to be an introspection of the Human Rights in the Cuban society does so from a defensive point of view without the recognition of actual documented violations of Human rights in Cuba.
Here is the link
http://www.temas.cult.cu/artic.....%20humanos
This is a small paragraph where we can see how propaganda is used
“Aun cuando la Revolución ha manifestado su voluntad polÃtica de proveer igualdad de oportunidades a todos los ciudadanos”
“Even when the revolution manifested its political will to give equality of opportunities to all its citizens”
I confess I could not read more pass that point. I was already saturated of lies.
It is a fallacy to think that the Cuban revolution does consider all its citizen the same. Yoani has demonstrated how ideology colors every faced of the Cuban life.
From been denied permission to travel to the student from Pinar del Rio (Nestor) who was spell from the university for expressing his views.
It is well documented that the revolution does punish those people that dare to be critical.
So there is not such thing as “equal opportunities to all its citizens” here it reminds me the often quote sentence from Animal farm where they claim
All animals are equal
To what I can reply yes but
Some animals seem to be more equal than others
Noviembre 24th, 2009 at 15:54
Ok guys I was reading this article on
http://www.cubaencuentro.com/e.....nte-221254
Where they talk about the director of the magazine “Temas” the same magazine that Yoani went as German tourist.
It turns out that is been publish for quite sometime
here is the link to the place
http://www.temas.cult.cu/
will be reading some of the writing there. The site seems to be very slow, I suppose because it seems to be hosted from Cuba.
Noviembre 24th, 2009 at 15:18
Whoever you are I suppose you prefer the “old” Cuba… where a few hundred people are bussed in and encouraged to beat up their fellow citizens for no reason. Get real. Or, better yet (and I don’t usually say stuff like this as the other commenters know)… GET LOST!
Noviembre 24th, 2009 at 15:17
Andy, I agree. To this non-Cuban, the Prieto article is a brilliant dissection of what makes Fidel Castro tick and why a “revolution” that has manifestly failed at all levels has yet survived 50 years.
And the left-leaning readers of The Nation - whatever their remaining illusions about Castro and his revolution may be - are the ideal audience to receive Prieto’s message.
Noviembre 24th, 2009 at 15:16
Another new blog that translates from spanish to english but is PRO Yoani…. Highly recommended by…. ME!
http://elyuma.blogspot.com/
There is an interview this guy (Ted Henken) did with Yoani, on YouTube
Noviembre 24th, 2009 at 15:14
What do I think about what? Who are you?
Noviembre 24th, 2009 at 15:10
…what do you think about that Andy?, Hank?, Julio?
Noviembre 24th, 2009 at 15:08
Concubino,
Do you really smoke marijuana and drink a couple of beers every time you need to take a break?
I don’t think someone like you should be involved amongst all these decent bloggers.
I don’t want to see Cuba, the new Cuba influenced and change by people like you.
I couldn’t believe what you wrote the other day.
Noviembre 24th, 2009 at 13:12
BRILLIANT article… an excerpt from a book… “Explaining the Cuban Revolution to Taxi Drivers” — don’t miss it:
http://www.thenation.com/doc/2.....eto/single
Here is a video of the author, Juan Manuel Prieto, talking about it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....r_embedded
Noviembre 24th, 2009 at 12:52
A note on 23rd and G… when I was in Havana… and clearly from various blog posts we can see…. 23rd and G is where young people hang out at night… the “frikis” and others. So has the government stepped in and “permanently” claimed this space to run off the young people? Who have nowhere to go since there is nowhere to go and particularly nowhere they can afford.
Noviembre 24th, 2009 at 12:50
George, back in the post with Obama’s answers — has raised the question about where does the UN stand with regards with Cuba (and pointed out that it was Britain that took serious measures against South Africa, not the US).
So.. that’s a good question. We know that every year the vote at the UN to demand an end to the embargo passed about 4,697 votes to 2 or 3. But what about the UN and Cuba’s human rights record? Anyone know?
Noviembre 24th, 2009 at 12:14
Thanks Concubino! I would like to see Havana some day. When I have some time, I will get back on Google Earth to see if I can find the coordinates for the intersection of 23rd and G based on your description and will post my guess.
Andy - It looks like this whole thing has really gotten under Chicamacha’s skin. I love it!
Noviembre 24th, 2009 at 11:24
I forgot to mention that from 23y G to Hotel Presisidente( calzada Y G) .Just going staight north there is only 8 blocks..
Noviembre 24th, 2009 at 11:20
Hotel Presidente is located in the intersection of G and Calzada st.In 23 y G you a movie theater nemed Riviera. Just separated by a wall is a restaurant(if is still there)I think is called “Carmelo”/.There is two “Carmelos” one in Calzada e/D and E and the other one in 23 and G.
Ave of Presidentes and G st are the same .23 run east west .
st named by letters run N to S
st with even numbers run also run N-S
St with odd numbers run E-W. Everything ends at malecon
So from 23 y G (ave of Presidentes ) to 23 y L ( la Rampa) Radiocentro is just 5 blocks.If you continue West you will find National Hotel and the Malecon.PARTY!!!
GUYS Havana is an awesome city Vedado is just the best…
Noviembre 24th, 2009 at 08:25
Thanks!
Noviembre 24th, 2009 at 07:55
The streets may be Fidel’s for now but the internet is ours! :-)
Noviembre 24th, 2009 at 07:54
Hank that is a great idea!
Noviembre 24th, 2009 at 06:26
I was on Google Earth trying to find 23rd and G to see what it looks like. I think I found G street, it looks like a two-lane boulevard, but I can’t find 23rd. Is the intersection close to the Vedado Hotel Presidente? There are not too many landmarks labeled on G Street. If anyone knows how to add a placemark to Google Earth, maybe with a photograph of 23rd and G, I think that would be a great tribute to Reinaldo.
Noviembre 24th, 2009 at 01:30
Estatue comment #119 — That is a very moving comment. Please stay alive so when the day comes we can all enjoy it together!
Noviembre 24th, 2009 at 01:22
Hank you are so right!!!!! Chicamacha is incredible! She’s translating everything. I think we should take up a collection and PAY HER!!!!! She can be our own personal anti-yoani-mercenary translator! What could be better?!?!?!
Noviembre 24th, 2009 at 01:20
FLACA! IN THIS SEASON I GIVE THANKS FOR YOU AND YOUR FELLOW BLOGGER!GRACIAS! I KNOW THAT SOON IN CUBA THERE WILL BE PLENTY OF TURKEYS, TO EAT, NOT TO GOVERNED BY!
CARPE DIEM BLOG POST: The Power of the Blog: Obama Responds to Yoani
“When the history of Cuba’s freedom movement is written, it’s likely that Yoani Sanchez will be recognized as a national hero and freedom fighter, the equivalent of Lech Walesa in Poland and Vaclav Klaus in the Czech Republic. Yoani Sanchez demonstrates that we should never underestimate the power of one courageous individual with a computer, a blog, and intermittent access to the Internet, or the individual’s power to change the world in the Information Age, especially with a message of freedom and individual liberty. The fact that the president of the United States, who is often recognized as the most powerful person in the world, has praised Yoani Sanchez’s blog and responded to her questions is a remarkable and historical event. Intellectual figures like Milton Friedman, Friedrich von Hayek, and Thomas Jefferson would be proud of Yoani Sanchez and her powerful message of individual freedom in one of the only remaining regimes of totalitarianism left in the world.”
http://blog.american.com/?p=7402
Noviembre 24th, 2009 at 00:43
Andy Everything is so close togheter that we can start the celebration in 23 y G and go all the way west to 23 y L ,then we go to la Rampa y from there we can walk to Malecon.I will show you where I swam as a teenager.
Hank: Machetera does not belong our league.But is she can be help the cause even as an adversary .Hey… why not.. a “Caballo regalao’ no se le mira colmillo”.
You guys have a great night
Noviembre 24th, 2009 at 00:26
Concubino…. thank you for your comment #114… I totally agree… we can all take credit.. we have taken the discussion in this forum to a new level.
SOME day… “after” … we have to have the biggest party ever… along the Malecon (or maybe at 23rd and G!)
Noviembre 24th, 2009 at 00:24
I have been reading the posts on Machetera’s blog ever since John Two mentioned her a few weeks ago. For anyone who does not know, Machetera (fondly referred to here as “Chicamacha”) is quite the Fidelista. Strange that anyone would ever aspire to such a thing, but there you have it.
Anyway, Chicamacha is providing a big service to us, free of charge, as a public service. She constantly talks about Yoani and Reinaldo and translates blogs written by people who also want to talk about her. Imagine that. Granted, they don’t say very nice things about our heroes, but that’s not the point. I have started commenting on her postings encouraging her to keep it up. The more publicity and more attention drawn to Yoani and Reinaldo the better. The more people throughout the world who know about Yoani and Reinaldo and the other bloggers in Cuba, the better off they will be.
So keep it up Chicamacha! We love you! Where do I send my check in support? Oh, and when is Raul going to answer those pesky questions?
http://machetera.wordpress.com/
Noviembre 24th, 2009 at 00:18
Statue
I think we will see a new Cuba free soon.
It may not be the Cuba that each of us remember but
it will finaly be free from dictators.
Noviembre 23rd, 2009 at 23:20
Interesting! This is news to me.
Noviembre 23rd, 2009 at 23:11
Hank
I posted this in Neoliberalismo.com a few months a go…
He estado leyendo los blogs de “Generacion Y” de Yoani Sanchez, “Desde aqui” de Reinaldo Escobar,todos dan una opinion diferente del porque, el VI Congreso del PCC ha sido aplazado indefinidamente..
Nadie parece notar que Alejandro Castro el nieto de Raul, ha estado haciendole sombras a su abuelo a donde quiera que va. Alejandro formo parte de la delegacion oficial que estuvo en varios paises de Africa, donde Cuba oficialmente dejo ser Presidente del actual Movimiento de Paises no Alineados.
Teniendo en cuenta lo que pasa en Corea del Norte de la cual Fidel es un gran admirador, pues hasta Reflexiones ha escrito con respecto a ese pais, no seria muy descabellado pensar que se esten creando las condiciones para una sucesion familiar del poder. Creandose asi la Dinastia caribena de los Castros al estilo de Corea del Norte.
Los Castros han demostrado una y otra vez que no confian en nadie, la defenestracion de Carlos Lage , Perez Roque es uno de los tantos ejemplos de lo citado anteriormente.
En mi opinion Raul Castro esta preparando el terreno y asi ganar tiempo para terminar el entrenamiento de su nieto en el manejo de las verdaderas “mieles del poder”.
Esa es a mi modo de ver la verdadera razon por la cual el VI congreso del PCC ha sido aplazado.
I’ve been reading the blogs of “Generation Y” yoanisanchez, “From Here” by Reinaldo Escobar, all give a different opinion of why, the Sixth Congress of the CCP has been postponed indefinitely ..
Nobody seems to notice that Alexander the grandson of Raul Castro, has been making his grandfather shadow wherever he goes. Alejandra is one of the official delegation that was in several countries in Africa where Cuba officially became president of the current leave Non-Aligned Movement.
Given what is happening in North Korea which Fidel is a big fan, because even written reflections on this country, it would be very unreasonable to think that they are creating the conditions for a family succession of power. Dynasty thus creating the Castros Caribbean style of North Korea.
The Castros have demonstrated time and again they do not trust anyone, the sacking of Carlos Lage, Perez Roque is one of many examples of the above.
In my opinion Raul Castro is preparing the ground and thus gain time to complete the training of his grandson in dealing with the real “honey of power.”
That is my opinion the real reason why the VI congress of the PCC has been postponed.
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I’ve been reading the blogs of “Generation Y” yoanisanchez, “From Here” by Reinaldo Escobar, all give a different opinion of why, the Sixth Congress of the CCP has been postponed indefinitely ..Nobody seems to notice that Alexander the grandson of Raul Castro, has been making his grandfather shadow wherever he goes. Alejandra is one of the official delegation that was in several countries in Africa where Cuba officially became president of the current leave Non-Aligned Movement.Given what is happening in North Korea which Fidel is a big fan, because even written reflections on this country, it would be very unreasonable to think that they are creating the conditions for a family succession of power. Dynasty thus creating the Castros Caribbean style of North Korea.The Castros have demonstrated time and again they do not trust anyone, the sacking of Carlos Lage, Perez Roque is one of many examples of the above.In my opinion Raul Castro is preparing the ground and thus gain time to complete the training of his grandson in dealing with the real “honey of power.”That is my opinion the real reason why the VI congress of the PCC has been postponed.
Noviembre 23rd, 2009 at 23:06
So, how about that… Statue of liberty was forced to leave the Island, she has no choice, but to go…I was forced to go as well.More or less all cubans are in the same category.Some of us leave for political reasons, some for economic reasons.But we all feel the same we were force to go , we feel like we didn’t have a choice.However while I like to support the transition I don’t feel I should be given the right to vote. Now who is to said who should or who shouldn’t.I think those who are in the island should have the last word on that one.
Noviembre 23rd, 2009 at 22:57
Julio and Concubino,
As far as I can tell, the two scenarios you pose give the same result. It doesn’t matter who goes first, #1 or #2.
This is precisely because of the iron-fisted rule these two idiots imposed on their country. But that is the trade-off a dictator has to make, isn’t it. There is no clear line of succession in Cuba, for good reason. These guys weren’t even smart enough to groom their own kids for the transfer of power. Out of all the kids they had between the two of them, not one was good enough? Think about that. What level of contempt must there be for yourself and your offspring not to think about transferring whatever it is you created to them. Correct me if I am wrong about this.
Look what is going on in North Korea. Kim Jung Il was rumored to be quite sick recently. The first speculation we all heard was that one of Kim’s sons was set to take up the mantle of power. That is still the speculation. Is there ANY hint of that sort of thing in Cuba? Not that I have heard. These two guys have been so short-sighted and so egotistical that they did not even have the foresight to recognize their own mortality, which is bearing down on both of them like a giant piano falling out of the sky. They are like two deer stuck in the headlights of an oncoming truck, and it is too late for either one of them to do anything about it.
Noviembre 23rd, 2009 at 22:50
Andy #85
I can only speak for myself. Even tough I have lived in this great nation called The United States of America for 50 years, every time I wake up in the morning I feel Cuba running thru my veins, there is not a moment that I don’t think about the country of my birth place. I am not to blame for being away so long; it‘s only the circumstances of the cancer that has invaded all our lives. It does not matter how long I have being away, I have the same rights as anyone else who either live now in Cuba or someone who left three or four years ago. I love Cuba as I had never left, it was not my choice to leave and not been able to return. If I still alive when the change comes, believe me, I want to be part of the process that help those who live there now to choose a form of government that they will be proud of fifty years from now.
Noviembre 23rd, 2009 at 22:22
Yeah, Julio exactly #1 is not able to govern, therefore without the protection from his brother a lot of things can happen.Basically they can make HELL in Earth for number#1, which by the way if number two goes first ,#1 is no longer
Noviembre 23rd, 2009 at 22:05
Hank
I know of some of some in this forum who has no Cuban blood.Those are the ones I’m refering as non Cubans.Some of them are just passive participators.Basically they just read, but they don’t comment.I was a passive participator for a long time in this forum,until one day..
The rest are Cubans
Noviembre 23rd, 2009 at 21:58
Actually Concubino
That will be amazing if it hapen (meaning if biological soluction hapen to Castro number II first)
Number one is unable to govern and anyway he is way too old and probably not with all the lights upstairs so I will imagine they will put any of these in charge
José Ramón Machado
José Ramón Fernández Ãlvarez
Ramiro Valdés (since 2009)
Ulises Rosales del Toro (since 2009)
Jorge Luis Sierra Cruz (since 2009)
Marino Murillo Jorge (since 2009)
From those
Ramon Machado
Ramiro Valdes
and
Rosales del Toro are the best known figures
Now everyone knows that Ramiro was in Charge of Segurosos
Machado will be more of the same he is also way too old
del Toro is Military
None of those will seem like a Gorbachev but I could be mistaken since they may be force to be one since none seem to be popular
Castro I and Castro II have made sure that nobody but them is “popular”.
So maybe someone we do not know and that will be force anyway to do the changes
because economically they can not sustain themselves anymore.
Noviembre 23rd, 2009 at 21:56
Concubino,
As Andy so eloquently stated earlier “who is a Cuban? Someone born on the island? The child of someone born on the island? The grandchild? Someone who left last year? Ten years ago? 50 years ago?”
That really hit home for me because I am what you might call “second generation.” I think there are a lot of us here who have very mixed feelings about that place. Family we never got to know, but who somehow know us because of photographs and stories sent by our parents back to the relatives THEY knew as we grew up. I tell you, it is really strange.
Noviembre 23rd, 2009 at 21:30
As I read all the comments I’m looking for something, just something to debate, something that I’m in disagree. I have to confess to all of you guys. All the comments are so well stated, but most importantly are so thoughtful, that I basically can’t. You guys rock!For the non Cubans members of this forum I wish that one day I can meet you in person to thank you eveyone personally for having Cuba in your hearts. Personally I don’t think I would be able to do, what you are doing, for a country that I don’t feel I belong. For the Cubans I feel like I know you already, so there is not to much to add, but thank you as well.
So to put a spin into this awesome debate. I would like to throw this question out there. Now that everybody is some kind of agreement that the biological solution is the solution….What do you think is going to happens is #2(raul) goes to hell before #1, (which name I can’t even write)?
As always the cool heads of this forum (Andy and Hank) should be the moderators, and of course I have something to say about it.
Noviembre 23rd, 2009 at 21:03
John Two,
I am also reading the educational module you posted. This is very helpful to me and I thank you for posting the link. The first thing that occurred to me when reading about the events leading to the fall of the Berlin Wall is Cuba’s geography. It is an island surrounded by shark infested waters. I believe Concubino pointed this out earlier. In any event, it seems to me that Cuba’s physical isolation will play a role in how things develop and distinguish it from the former East Bloc countries in Europe. But let me keep reading. This is good stuff.
Noviembre 23rd, 2009 at 20:25
Julio,
That is a very interesting point. If the ration booklets are eliminated, that gap in peoples’ daily existence will have to be filled somehow. I am not an economist, but it seems to me that if this basic subsidy is suddenly taken away (I don’t know if the plan is to phase it out gradually or stop it all at once) doesn’t that create a huge demand that will have to be filled somehow? Food isn’t a luxury that can be simply eliminated - it is a necessity. Will the end of ration booklets further stimulate the black market and in turn lead to additional crackdowns against the black market by the government? Do you foresee food riots in Havana?
Noviembre 23rd, 2009 at 19:32
I was reading the link recommended by John Two
“The only way that Communist regimes could raise the revenue they needed to pay their external debts was to increase prices for essentials—food, shelter, and energy. Faced with rising prices and stagnant wages in an economy controlled by the government, citizens increasingly turned their ire on the government—first in private and later in public.”
This part is true for Cuba
The Cuban government is about to eliminate the rationing book. Not because they want to but because they can not afford it anymore. They have ran out of money they even froze accounts of foreign companies in Cuba.
So the debacle is near!
Noviembre 23rd, 2009 at 19:22
Que es esto??? la Inquisicion moderna??? bajos y chusmas esa es la escuela “gratis” que les dio Fidel, las imagenes me abren las carnes de recordar lo que sufrio mi padre en mano de esos perros ignorantes y lameculos.Democracia libertad para todos los cuabanos en la isla!!!!!!!! que se acabe ya el terrorismo comunista!!! la represion y la vuolencia!!! que se respeten los DDHH.
Noviembre 23rd, 2009 at 19:11
Yubano — you are absolutely right… certainly not in the near term (a decade or more). The resources to feed, house, clothe, transport, and build the economy of the island are not sufficient within the island itself.
Which is another key consideration in the roles of those outside the Island, Cubans or others.
Noviembre 23rd, 2009 at 18:48
Andy, The amount of material here is overwhelming.
I like your analysis of the one-brother-is-enough theory. Almost like a three legged stool. If you kick one leg out, the whole thing comes crumbling down. Doesn’t matter which leg you kick out.
Noviembre 23rd, 2009 at 18:44
I agree with you John about the political solution coming from within the island, but they will have to reach out to those outside the island as well. The solution to Cuba’s massive structural, institutional and economic problems cannot be solved by the people in Cuba alone, the resources are not there.